On Friday I had an unexpected visitor in the form of a city nurse. I am not exactly sure how it works but basically there are nurses that come and check babies usually before they are 2 months old and they are employed by the city.
I had a nurse visit when Noah was about 2 months old- she talked me through the immunization processes, dropped off some information and a note for Shun to read and weighed Noah to make sure he was getting big enough I guess. The one that came then was super nice and friendly and we had no issues at all.
The one on Friday however came to check on me and Noah to make sure we were coping okay and I get the feeling she was also checking that I wasn`t neglecting Noah. She arrived unannounced on Friday afternoon while Noah was napping.
At first I didn`t really think much of it- I thought perhaps there was supposed to be a second visit although I do remember telling the nurse that had come previously that next time it would be better if someone RANG before just showing up.
A couple of weeks back I had a 24 hour stomach bug and then a couple days after that I got a cold- the cold wasn`t that bad at first but got worse and I went to the doctors to get some meds in the hope it would knock it on its head. The doctor`s surgery on the day I went was packed, I didn`t have an appointment and it was so hot inside the waiting room. After 90 minutes I was still waiting to see a doctor and I felt like crap and just wanted to go home and lie down. I was getting stressed out from waiting so I went up to ask how much longer it would be and I got a bit dizzy and fainted (although it was a weird kind of faint because I could still hear all that was going on and I was aware of what was happening- not like other times I have fainted). I was holding Noah when this happened but I sort of crumpled downwards and Noah didn`t hit himself on anything. They took me to the back room and I waited a further 20 minutes or so before seeing the doctor.
I was pissed off by this time. I just wanted to go home and I was certain Noah was going to get sick now because we had been waiting so long in a room full of sick people and I was beginning to wish I hadn`t come at all. Anyway- I saw the doctor, he gave me some medicine, and I paid the bill and left.
Well someone at the clinic contacted the city nurse people and told them I was not coping with taking care of Noah. Apparently.
Yeah- there is no doctor patient confidentiality in this country. But that is a whole different story.
So yeah, the city nurse came.
She asked me all these questions about whether I was sleeping, whether I was okay taking care of Noah by myself and also some weird questions about who bathed him (I think she was hinting at the fact I might try to drown him if I was upset????) and what time Shun was coming home and whether he helped out. Also she commented that I probably didn`t have much support because I lived far from my family and asked whether Shun`s family was close and whether I had friends I could talk too.
Then get this, she asked me if I was taking my medication for depression and coping okay. So yeah, whoever rang from the clinic revealed my history with depression, knew I was on medication and told the city nurse people. Not that I hide this fact but seriously….
I suspect it was one of the nurses from my clinic- I doubt it was the doctor but still. At this point Noah woke up from his nap and he was happy as larry to see we had a visitor and was all smily and what not but he was due for a feed and I was so pissed off by this time I just wanted this lady to leave so I told her he was due for a feed (which was true) and stood up indicating that I wanted her to leave now.
She told me that someone from the clinic had contacted them and advised that they should come and check on me. Can you believe that? They said I had seemed stressed and also very tired.
Um yeah I was stressed when I was waiting at the clinic for almost 2 hours because I was sick, tired and looking after a baby. What do they expect?
Needless to say but we will be finding a new clinic to go to.
NOTE: I wanted to use much stronger language when writing this post but I try not to swear too much on my blog. But yeah, imagine that I was using the F word more than a couple times throughout! I was just sooooooooo angry and I still am. I realize that whoever called was concerned for me or for Noah but they should of spoken to me about it and asked if I wanted them to contact someone to come visit with me (I would of said no) but I am more pissed off about the fact that they just reveal any medical history they want and also that they thought I was neglecting Noah or that I wasn`t coping with raising him. The nurse also kept writing stuff down in her notebook and I do wonder what happens with those notes? She did say that he seemed very genki when she saw him- I am not sure what she expected?
I will not be letting any more city employee`s into my house either.
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Urgh this makes me so mad. How dare they go and give out your confidenitial details without your consent. Anyone with half a brain knows that being a Mum is hard work and we all get stressed out from time to time.
I’m sure they mean well and are just trying to help, but seriously? You have every right to be pissed.
It sounds like you’re pretty angry about this
Sorry I don’t comment very often but I do check in on your blog
I live here in Japan too with my Japanese hubby and little boy, now 3. I feel like I’ve been through a lot of what you’re facing now, so hope you don’t mind if I comment honestly…
I know it can feel really frustrating and intrusive at times, but to be honest, I just think the staff were just concerned about you and therefore Noah too. The last thing anyone wants is for you to have an accident and place yourself and subsequently bub too in danger. You fainting in the waiting room was probably a warning sign to them and they may well have thought that it wasn’t an unusual thing for you. Often times women over here are embarrassed to complain and ask for help when they need it. Your depression was probably what tipped the balance and made them step in to make sure all was ok. Things do work differently over here and it seems offices and companies advise each other of important information. In Australia we’re always complaining that government bodies should get their acts together and work as one, right? Try to take the visit as it was probably intended….making sure you were both healthy and happy…that’s all anyone really wants
Email me anytime if you wanna chat
Oh man that would piss me off soooo much.
I really really hate the lack of medical confidentiality here.
I would be calling the clinic and telling them off, although they may have men in white coats come and cart you off because you were ‘mentally distrurbed!’ What a bunch of twats, seriously!
It’s like there is no real support network here as regards to mental health but some arsehole nurse or doctor who has kept you waiting for 2 hours can make assumptions and have some stranger interrogate you about coping!? It’s so ridiculous it’s almost funny!
P.S. I also wanted to swear a lot in that comment but out of respect for your limited swearing blog I’ll keep it to twats and arseholes
What a horror story! That’s so awful – I’m sorry to hear it. That seems totally wrong and invasive to me.
My mom’s a social worker, and I’ve worked in public schools (in the States) and I know there are times when there’s concern about a child’s welfare and someone is sent to check it out. There has to be actual just cause, though, not just some busybody’s racist hunch! I’m talking a kid with bruises, or missing tons of school and looking undernourished or something.
Why didn’t they just ask you if you were okay and let you explain that their stupid office was too hot, stuffy, and full of germs? Your explanation more than makes sense, and they might do well to spend time concentrating on customer service and expediency than faffing around reporting unfounded suspicions to the authorities.
Bloody hell, what a horrible experience for you – even though it may have been done with the best of intentions it must have felt like a massive invasion of privacy and a personal insult. They should have tried to talk to you about it first before taking it elsewhere… the lack of directness here drives me up the wall! I’d definitely get Shun to send a strongly worded letter of complaint to your clinic.
I can understand your anger but just think of all the kids that die because of lack of intervention. In Australia and here the authorities have been raked over the coals because noone has stood up and voiced an opinion when it was really needed. It is all about the protection of the child and Noah is worth protecting, and so too are all children.
I am suprised that someone did intervene because it is not like Japanese people to stick their heads out and say something that might cause them to step outside of their box. It may have been the clinic staff that said something rather than a fellow patient. Even though it made you angry it was worth it.
and as for the ‘unannounced’ visit, I think that’s great (sorry Lulu) If you really weren’t coping then they would have been able to see you that way as opposed to having time to ‘cover it all up’.
I hope in hindsight that you can eventually appreciate this visit. Don’t hate them forever the Health Centre staff have you and Noah at the best interest and you may need them sometime.
Gosh, what a horror story! I would be livid! I was thinking about this and it wouldnt surprise me if notifying the city office when there are concerns is written in the fine print of the forms you filled out when you first went there. Since the introduction of the personal information protection act (個人情報保護法)a few years ago in Japan, most places these days including clinics will have you sign a form at the begining stating that they will not use your personal info for xyz, and that you consent to them using it for xyz. I would be tempted to directly ask your clinic about their privacy protection policy and how something like that could happen. It doesnt have to be confrontational. But will help understand the system here better. Regardless, it sucks to be put in that kind of situation and must have been an aweful experience for you! Sending big hugs your way. ((((hugs))))
How incredibly frustrating!!! I got ticked off just reading this. I can understand if there was genuine concern for a child’s well-being it would be appropriate to step in, but I don’t see how you fainting gives them cause to discuss your medical history. I think a more appropriate first step would have been to talk to you while you were at the clinic. I agree with Nooh above-perhaps you/your husband can contact the clinic and find out their stance on the PIPA while expressing concern over the way they handled things. It may not make you feel better, but at least you will know your rights in case something similar happens in the future. Sorry you had to deal with this!
Wow! You have much more restraint than I do. I think Japan is wonderful in many ways, and I think that it’s great there is a system in place where a city nurse visits you after a month or 2 of giving birth. I think it’s fabulous that there is a system in place where a medical professional can express their concern for a child’s welfare, and someone will actually act upon that concern. HOWEVER, I think whomever expressed their concern in your case was WAAAAY out of line. If they were concerned, they should have asked you some questions while you were there in the clinic to get a better picture of what was going on, and based their actions on your answers. Of course you were tired! You were sick!! and waiting in a stuffy waiting room for 2 hours!! If someone had bothered to ask you how you are coping with Noah while you are sick, or some other intuitive, mildly probing questions, they might have been able to figure out you were in fact coping with motherhood, just fine, and in this particular instance you were just physically unwell – end of story. If it were me, I would have been on the phone to the clinic, probably while the city nurse was still there, and incredibly, incredibly angry. I’m so angry for you right now I want to call you clinic myself!!! Laura, I’m really sorry you had to deal with being treated so unfairly. What a horrible thing to have happen. At least you can take comfort in the knowledge that if perhaps you did need help, it is available. Hope the rest of the day gets better from here!
So sorry to hear this. It must have been very upsetting. My rule of thumb is to assume that absolutely nothing in Japan is confidential. Nothing! when i was pregnant the first time once I had to reschedule an appointment because the woman before me had an emergency. The next visit the doctor told me all about her problem and what they did. This is why I am refusing to go get the “human dock” stuff done that is being offered to me free this year from my husband’s company. DH keeps telling me that the info is not turned over to his bosses, but I am sure it is.
Okay, I realise you are angry and if I were you I`m sure I would be livid too but I am deeply heartened by what you have written. Of course you are insulted personally as you are fine and are coping..but what if you weren`t?? I`m so impressed that the Japanese staff at the clinic noticed (although they misread your behaviour) and took action. In your case it was unneccessary but for others maybe not. I don`t know if you know but there have been a lot of stuff on the news about the lack of social service support for children and mothers in need recently and I guess that is why they have been given a kick up the backside and are being a bit more pro-active about their investigations. What do you think a mother who is truly suffering from PND would say to a nurse if they said they wanted to come round an check on them? I guess they have to do it unannounced. I totally empathize with your anger but I`m really happy this is happening. The Japanese are known for turning a blind eye and keeping themselves to themselves so this pro-activeness is a real step forward. Don`t want to upset you as I assure you I would feel the same as you if I were on the receiving end of it but as an outsider I`m very impressed with the clinic and the system they have in place.
Sorry but I think some of you are missing the point. Yes it’s great they were concerned and asked child services to check and make sure that an ill mom with an infant was coping well and had help and support. However, the staff member who called child services went so far as to reveal that she has suffered from depression and is on medication for depression. In most countries this would result in immediate termination of employment. In Japan it is perfectly fine. I mean I can actually get in trouble with the police if I give out one of my daughter’s classmate’s phone numbers, but yet medical and health care professionals are not under any obligation to protect the privacy of their patient’s most intimate information?
Uggg Lulu that completely sucks… and interesting to read all the comments as well and see everyones stance on the matter.
I think in my opinion the whole revealing of medical information is awful here… both Ryohei and I have had similar experiences. Once when I had a health check and was maybe pregnant I requested not to take an echo and the stupid nurse faxed that I was possible pregnant to my office(!!) and then with the Drs. calling Ryohei’s parents about his kidney issues.
It seriously boils my blood the lack of privacy.
I can see both sides where I do think that in some cases a similar “visit” would be very important in the case of an abusive or unhappy parent, but I do think that without even asking you about things it was a bit extreme. Even a simple questioning at the clinic would have been more appropriate (in my opinion) Anyways glad you were able to vent on here and I would also change clinics if I were you just because it would probably be difficult for me to hold my tongue if I ever went back.
At least it isn’t like the States where once you are in “the system” you may be surprised with check-ins until your oldest child turns 18. (how about that for a nightmare!)
I had a “nurse” show up after Sakura’s four month checkup. When Sakura was born she was over the 100th percentile for weight and height so when she had levelled out a bit at four months (only in the 80th percentile!), the city sent someone to see what was going on. I think in my case it was a little ridiculous but, like you, I didn’t get what was going on until near the end of the visit. Also, she came when Sakura was sleeping and when the lady asked to see her I said no and she looked a little shocked. She woke up near the end so the lady was able to see her and then she left. It was a weird.
After that happened, I tried to think back and I realized that someone had come when Misaki was about 4 months and I hadn’t let her in. I didn’t speak Japanese really well then so I didn’t know who she was. I just refused and she left and nothing came of it. If someone comes again you can probably just say no without repercussions.
PS In our city, the people who come aren’t actually nurses.
Wow, I would have been royally pissed off too, obviously from meeting you and reading the blog and seeing a lovely healthy family in the photos it seems ridiculous!
but I can see where the comments about checking up on those parents who do have problems come from as sometimes social workers visit and visit and miss the signs but I think they may have been looking for ‘signs’ in the wrong way or for the wrong reasons in this case.
A long wait in an office with the cold and a baby is just a horrible afternoon but Noah looks extremely healthy and happy, I would have expected them to be worried about your blood pressure, not your parenting.
However the invasion of privacy is a nightmare, if you’d been in Glasgow and fainted at the docs I think they would have taken you to a room and checked you out there and then and asked if you were ok how you were coping, not revealed medical history and sent someone round unexpected, nor assumed you couldn’t cope because you weren’t originally from here.
I have to say though Glasgow nurses have been absolute magic in my experience, good at spotting problems as well as applying common sense to a situation.
I hope after that visit they’ve realised everythings fine. xxx
I`m sorry if I missed the point. I understand now that your confidentially being breached is your main grievance and I agree that it is terrible. My comments were sparked by the countless child abuse stories on the news recently and my question “How did the health/social services miss that???” But I totally get why you are furious too and would be beside myself too if I ever felt someone was insinuating I couldn`t take care of my own children. I`m sorry if my comments came across as insensitive or misguided. Perhaps you should look into making a complaint about your doctor/patient confidentiality being breached. If you want this to stop happening to others then it might be best to lodge a complaint with the clinic or at the local health office hokenjo? I`m truly sorry this happened to you Lulu, please don`t think otherwise!
wow, what a nightmare. i’d be absolutely livid and would probably be ringing up the clinic. and then having yoshi ringing them. and probably vowing never to go to the doctor again! not possible, obviously, but what. a. pain.
oh well, one more experience under your belt. good thing everything is fine, and sorry you had such a shitty experience.
if i were you, i’d let the clinic know (by phone perhaps) why i wasn’t going to be returning as a patient. maybe after i’d cooled off, but i would definitely let them know that the information they passed on to someone else (your depression and meds) was Not Cool.
I see both sides of it but if it was me I would be rather livid myself also. I think if someone was so concerned about things when they saw you there they should have asked you questions about how things were going or what not to see that it was just due to not feeling so well and the place being so crowded that you fainted in the first place.
Ugh that’s ridiculous! Anyone with half a mind could maybe see why someone who WENT TO THE DR might be sick thus tired and slightly out of sorts.. So sorry they put you through that. I really dislike how there’s no patient Dr confidentiality here… I haven’t had any problems myself (to be honest I sometimes don’t tell them SOME things here for that reason!) but I’ve heard horror stories: this included.
Hope they leave you alone after this. *hugs*
I’m sorry to hear you had to go through this. While I understand the clinic was concerned they really should have asked you questions when you were there, especially since they knew you were sick. It just sounds like one nurse decided to take matters into her own hands and she should not be allowed to do that and especially shouldn’t give out health information like depression, etc. I can’t blame you for not wanting to go back there as it’s a real invasion of privacy. I would lodge a formal complaint with them if you could as they need to know that they overstepped their bounds and that at least one patient does not approve of their methods. There could be others who had this happen to them but they may not have had the courage to tell them they weren’t happy.
Here in the US we have a few laws that prohibit health care providers, etc. from giving out personal and protected health information without your consent.
Thanks everyone for the comments.
I was definitely more upset about the fact that my clinic revealed information about me to an outside source. What is more as I really do think it was one of the nurses at my clinic as opposed to the doctor. Also upset that the nurse or doctor or whoever thought I was stressed/tired etc etc and perhaps not caring for Noah properly had asked me directly if I wanted help from an outside source and/or whether I was coping okay.
I would of been honest and said i was coping fine- just a bit under the weather because I had a DAMN COLD!
It is not as if the fact I have suffered from depression in the past is a secret- I write about it here occasionly and this blog is on the internet for ANYONE to see.
I also felt like they were slightly picking on me because I was foreign and some of her comments suggested that also. Things like she said she had heard I was young, and also because I was foreign I had no family close by to help me.
On the other hand I am glad that there is a system here that if you suspect something is up then someone will go visit you. I just think they went about it completely the wrong way and invaded my privacy for no reason just because they think they should/can. I do think if I had been Japanese nothing would of happened.
Plus every other time I have been to my clinic I have been a great mother (I think?!) I take him on time for his immunizations, he is always smiling and happy, well fed, clean clothes and I take him if suspect he is sick (I recently took him for a runny nose but the doctor said it wasn`t a cold and he didn`t need any medication) and I have taken him many times for check ups on his eczema and what not. I do not think I have shown other signs of PND when I have been at the clinic before- and if I had then the staff there should of asked me about it themselves.
I wanted Shun to ring the clinic but he won`t. I might once I have found another clinic- I will ring and tell them WHY I know longer wish to be a patient there or take Noah there.
I have heard horror stories of people leaving their kids at home alone or hitting them etc etc- yet as far as I know there is no nurse that goes to visit them. I guess I felt victimized. I honestly felt like they were picking on me for a reason that was not valid.
If I had taken Noah in with bruises- then sure, I can see why they might be concerned. Or if I go to the clinic and spend the whole time crying, then again, I can see why they might be concerned. But fainting because I am hot, sick and tired and have been waiting for over 90 minutes? Yeah, not a real good reason to suggest PND or neglect since I was there for a cold anyway.
Again thanks for the comments- I just needed to get it off my chest.
I can understand why this is very upsetting, but i honestly think it was probably good practice.
Here int he UK there are rules that say that we can break medical confidentiality in cases involving child protection. In fact we are obliged to.
And it wasn’t warranted in your case, but again – what if it had been.
Also you could argue confidentiality wasn’t broken – as information needs to be shared between health care professionals in order to ensure continuity of care.
However, as I say, I obviously understand why you were very irritated, and probably would have been in your case as well.
I’m so sorry this happened to you Lulu! I’d be FURIOUS!!! Although I agree it’s good for concerns about a child’s welfare to be taken seriously, if they were really that concerned about Noah, why did they wait WEEKS to come check on him? And there was absolutely no evidence that you’ve been anything other than an awesome mommy! A very simple check of all your records, both your’s and Noah’s would have answered their questions! You have every right to be angry! Big hugs to you and Goma-chan!
Far too many comments to read so will just go ahead anyway.
I got a three week check up from the ward office nurse and a three month one-ish. It was from people I know as have worked at ward myself and hub does and still works there.
Is standard practice here. I got asked about depression – how was I sleeping, my thoughts towards the baby, etc etc. First time round I thought it was just rude and invasive. Third time round and they can have their answers to put in there ten page file.
I think it’s just the norm, triggered by your fainting and then reading your history. Fuck (sorry) them for passing on your information though. Sounds so ‘inaka’ Japan in that respect. Honestly, privacy is crap – I went to the supermarket yesterday and four people (two of whom I don’t think I have ever me) asked me how my mum’s chemo was going????? Hellllooooooooo people, I know you ‘think’ you care but shit.
Hugs to you and the beautiful Noah.
Everyone has said everything on both sides that I was going to say, so I will just say I think you are an absolutely fantastic mother and I do not think there was any doubt about that at any time even on behalf of the person who reported this – I think they were probably more concerned that you were unwell and maybe did not have anyone to help you with Noah while you were unwell.
I have trouble being unwell at the best of times and that is one of the reasons why I have decided not to be a mother of anything other than cats – cats can at least look after themselves while I curl up in a ball with a cold flannel on my forehead. I don’t know what I would do if I had to worry about anyone else at the same time as feeling like a truck was driving through my sinuses leaving a trail of acid.
Depression sucks, been there, done that several times, many of us do, but it helps us to appreciate the non-depression in a way I do not think we could otherwise.
I read your blog and I think how amazingly mature and put together and incredible you are – and I think if anyone comes calling in the future, you should just give them your blog url and send them on their way.
I am in two minds over this.
On the one hand it was totally uncalled for in your case. You are a great Mum and taking amazing care of your child and some busy body at the health clinic dobbed you in without taking the whole scenario into account. Plus revealing your medical history is just wrong on so many levels.
On the other hand, mental health issues are usually badly handled in Japan, rarely discussed or acknowledged even by the person who is suffering (usually unnecessarily). If a mother was having problems and in need of assistance (but not asking for help), it would be in the best interest of her and her child if this approach was employed in a timely manner. Albeit in this heavy-handed, busy-body manner.
It does beg the question though, “Do you think they would have dobbed you in if you were not a foreigner?”
A case of the clinic hearing hooves and thinking zebras – not horses.
You have every right to be annoyed – your clinic, where you went because you were sick and needed help – not only made things worse by making you wait, but then had to interpret your fainting as your fault when it was really THEIRS. Then they shared your medical information without your consent.
I wonder, however, whether the visit happened more because you are a foreigner than anything else. I can so see the clinic nurse who called the city making the decision to do so as it would then not be her “problem” to deal with. She wouldn’t have to go through the horror/embarrassment/stress/whatever of having a conversation with the sick foreigner, and could instead delegate it to somebody else. Avoidance – a very common tactic here.
Don’t take it personally, however, by all appearances you are doing a WONDERFUL job with Noah.
Eep, I’m just now seeing this, but I’m so sorry that happened.
I see both sides of things, but I do think they jumped the gun a bit with you, probably because you’re a foreigner, young, and because of the depression/medication. How does Japanese society approach depression in general? I know that over here in China they would make a much bigger deal out of the fact that someone is on medication than is necessary, and so many people neglect to get help for issues like depression because they fear the stigma that this society attaches to all problems psychological. Not to say that depression isn’t serious, but it doesn’t automatically make you a candidate for the men in white coats either, as of course you know!
Of course you’re a great mom and you know that and I hope that’s the last you’ll see of the social worker.
Someone above mentioned that confidentiality can be broken in child protection cases – the same could happen here, but they don’t actually follow anything up!
Hi Lulu, I read this a few days and didn’t have time to comment until today. I’m sorry you had to go through such an experience with the public health system, but this is a great topic for debate – as can be noted from many comments you got. My mom is the director of public health for her county (in the USA) and has nurses on her staff who do home visits for new moms in the community. Many of these moms are immigrants, and English is their 2nd language, so though it may seem intrusive on some occasions, these women do sometimes need help and it is best if they can be reassured that there is help available should they need it. Despite how smart and put-together we gaijin in Japan are, we ARE immigrants here and cannot possibly know all there is to know about services offered her in Japan. I think it’s good that the Japanese govt is willing to include us in their “services” rather than ignore us or say it’s too much of a hassle to deal with us.
As for getting a cold and going to see the doc about it, since you are nursing and Noah is well under a year old, you should go straight to his pediatrician who will be sure to prescribe meds that are safe to take while nursing. I have been literally turned away by doctors who would not see me because I am a nursing mother. And, if you do choose a new doc, try to find someone who has a computer appt system so that you don’t have to wait in the waiting room until your number is called. Our ped uses this system and we can wait in the car or somewhere nearby and check online (on the cell phone) to see when our number will be called. Makes a huge difference.
Good luck!
Selena told me about this over coffee (I’m having a bit of a blog vacation, no updating or reading!); I just wanted to comment to say that I think this is wrong on every possible level:
breach of privacy, far-fetched assumptions based on very little information, lack of empathy and responsibility (of course, the clinic couldn’t be the cause of your dizzy spell could it? No, it had to be you, of course… grrr), no questions asked to you directly by the clinic…
The bottom line is that in Japan mental health is still very much taboo; having anything on your record that suggests depression could end up in anyone’s hands (employers, government, etc). Just a couple of months ago, a friend told me that one of his coworkers admitted to his manager that he had received a bit of therapy for some anxiety; the very next day he was stripped of his responsibilities. We’re not talking about a small, domestic only company either…
So while in a more empathetic society I could, if I really tried, see this as a positive step towards giving support to people in need, instead I see this as a worrying probe. When this society steps up and stops treating people who get therapy, counselling or medication for depression or anxiety disorders as outcasts, then this blog entry won’t be so worrying. It’s important to not get carried away as soon as something relates to children, serious mistakes can be committed that separate parents from their children too; the road to hell is paved with good intentions…
Take care!!